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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 00:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
yeah
packaging a tech nerf with a suicide gank nerf amplifies the effect of both in hilarious ways now that technetium and plat tech are essentially chained to isotope prices thanks to driving the cost of the former to fuel cost
so, essentially, we here at GBS Logisitcs and Fives Support thank you for giving CCP SREEGS more work to do now that you've made it risk-free to operate an ice mining bot in highsec |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 00:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
not to mention the removal of the only conflict driver in 0.0 |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 02:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:not to mention the removal of the only conflict driver in 0.0 yeah because XDeath got wiped out so Solar could profit from all their tech moons  And Im sure all that Tech in Delve is really what motivated TEST to invade.  Thats probably why -A- is going to attack them in fact.  /sarcasm honestly guys, if you think moons are the only conflict driver anywhere you should really take another look at human nature. this just in, pubbie renter shirtlord thinks he knows 0.0 politics
i'm surprised you are even allowed to post on eveo with your main |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 02:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
solar and xdeath was sparked by tech drama in geminate
CFC smackdown of d/q/pb was to neuter a growing coalition of shirtlords who had recently been in the north aiding raidendot in their abortive attempts at stealing our tech
got any other conflicts in the last year for me to explain or is this enough |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 03:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
try 40,000
and that's with a conservative estimate of 600 isk / unit topes |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 03:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
fyi conservative means that unless darius "ccp sreegs" johnson can be arsed to roll out of bed and ban bots once in a while topes should be cratering far past that as the only check to their unmitigated spread is being removed |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 03:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
in case you were wondering i'm actually much more concerned with the exhumer/barge thing
the tech ramifications are just ancillary and we've been arguing for a tech nerf for basically as long as we've had it including a whole CSM term |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 05:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
but you see it is different which makes it bad it does not do some of the things the old inventory did such as |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.25 17:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
woah ho hey let's back up the tinfoil short bus there for a sec
and get this thread back on track
the track, of course, being "how high do you even have to be to couple a sea change moon goo nerf with the castration of ice scarcity, allowing both systems to rush geometrically to the bottom" |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
128
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Posted - 2012.07.26 19:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hammer Legion Member wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: Owning space sucks, its boring, thankless, and nothing more than a burden. CCP destroyed the value of space by adding in the anoms, so true sec matters far less now days.
would you explain to us, why true sec matters today less than before? 
hi
when you conquer a system you can install a magical structure called an INFRASTRUCTURE HUB
in it you can install the following devices:
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=2030 <-- generates anomalies that instantly respawn. Truesec does affect these spawns, but no longer affect them in a meaningful way since sanctums and havens were obviated by better types of anoms that spawn in literally any truesec
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=2044 <-- generates instantly respawning gravimetric sites in a system that allow for boundless mining
neither of these upgrades are particularly affected by system truesec, meaning that any shithole you rent out is identical to the good space |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
129
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Posted - 2012.07.26 21:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hammer Legion Member wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: neither of these upgrades are particularly affected by system truesec, meaning that any shithole you rent out is identical to the good space
Hi, there! you are thinking that Hubs are better than Hubs plus other stuff. You are wrong. regards HML don't sign your posts
and they're not, hubs are literally the only anoms worth running |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
129
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Posted - 2012.07.26 22:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
no sorry i am not into gangbangs |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
129
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Posted - 2012.07.26 22:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote: ... and when an anom nerf made truesec matter again for a few months the people who complained loudest about it (and eventually got CCP to buff the the lower-end CAs) were the same ones who cry that truesec doesn't matter anymore in this thread.
wrong
the incursion 1.4 change affected us the least
deklein has the most sanctum-capable systems in nullsec
(although at the time the drone regions had a better selection of excellent truesec systems, but they also dropped drone poo which made the comparison weak at best
and now their truesec got punched in the groin and deklein is king shit of truesec mountain)
Quote:Crucible: true-sec doesn't matter
this is actually a thing that happened and is not merely a sarcastic remark by an npc corp shirtlord
this happened because hubs got retuned to be the best anoms, and outside of pure blind and providence hubs can spawn, meaning that the truesec anom change was all but neutered by making havens and sanctums obsolete
also the removal of drone poo made mining not completely horrible for money generation, and guess what, industry upgrades give no fucks about truesec
but feel free to continue to spout your unfounded neanderthrashings in this forum because your main is in some eastern renter shithole
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
129
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Posted - 2012.07.26 23:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Powers Sa wrote: So you're shooting for 80k per unit prices?
One of the goals up until the beginning of phase two is for Tech to continue being the best moon in the game by a large margin.
coupling the tech nerf with a suicide ganking nerf means that neo will supplant tech as isotope prices crash due to ungankable ice mining bots proliferating like cockroaches
with isotopes at 600 (which is a very conservatively high number) tech will be at 40k within a month
I mean, if you're cool with neo being king shit of moon mineral mountain then go for it
(I'm not sure how committal your statement is intended to be) |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
129
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Posted - 2012.07.26 23:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ruiryu wrote:I think it is funny how the OTECH guys are crying buckets over this change and saying it's the only thing that fuels conflicts. When it is really only fueling a one sided war where the rest of EVE suffers.
These changes are right on the money to bring things back inline to where things need to be at not where you want them to be at. Suck it up. unfree btls |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
129
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Posted - 2012.07.27 00:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
yeah, the argument mostly came around to reinforce the fact that without moons, nullsec is too homogenized
that being said, nerfing moon goo is definitely a good thing to do, but doing it without a commensurate buff to make different areas of nullsec differentiated, as well as coupling it with a massive crash in isotope prices is probably the worst possible way to go about it
for example, PI is basically the perfect vehicle to encourage more nullsec activity, but depletion was tuned too poorly and as a result the throngs of empire shirtlords can comfortably supply the market, leaving fallow the planets in nullsec whose higher yields should be dominating the economy
(full disclosure: deklein is also the best PI region in the game) |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
129
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Posted - 2012.07.27 00:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Grath Telkin wrote: While we realize this will be a multi stage release, the boredom of 0.0 wont make it until some november release, we need MORE things to drive conflicts NOW not later, and taking the last thing left out isn't really the best idea.
So go shoot all the Cobalt and platinum moons.
there are too many cobalt and platinum moons to take down, there's no way any one organization could possibly do this
doing this is stupid
your example is stupid
and you're stupid
now I'm stupid |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
129
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Posted - 2012.07.27 02:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
I took a moment to review the actual math behind plat tech alchemy, and I'm posting my findings below.
:siren: MATH TIME :siren:
The prevalence of cobalt and platinum dictates that, over time, plat tech alchemy will go to fuel cost. CCP Fozzie said as much in the devblog announcing the change.
Here is a pos block worksheet, where I've artificially set the price of isotopes to 600 isk per unit. All other pos block ingredients (primarily planetary interaction items) are not expected to move significantly due to this patch, so I'm using current prices (pulled from eve-central) for them.
I must stress that the isotope isk per unit figure is very conservative -- with the advent of 80k EHP skiffs and 27k EHP hulks, mining ice in high sec is completely safe and will be inundated by bots inside of a month. If ice falls to 400 or 500 isk per unit, it will not surprise me in the least. 600 isk was chosen due to being the average price for isotopes before the GSF Gallente Ice Interdiction.
Worksheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AukS-t3ALI3ZdFVQWWtyYjl2R2NlYzFlQlRWMFJCUmc#gid=1 (Ignore the block cost column, it's just pulling the current pos block cost from eve-c. Column B is the important part.)
A fuel block costs 11,824 isk based on that sheet. A non-faction, medium pos doing a single PT alchemy reaction in sov space will consume 15 fuel blocks per hour, 10 platinum per hour, and 100 cobalt per hour. There is enough cobalt in eve to safely discard the cost of the cobalt, as attempting to ship it in any reasonable quantity incurs more fuel cost than is profitable to export. Platinum is currently 3,505.81 isk in Jita, but we'll increase the price of platinum by 20% to account for a sixth use of platinum being added to the game, to 4,206.97 isk.
Costs: * 15 fuel blocks: 177,360 isk * 100 cobalt: free * 10 platinum: 42,069.70 isk
Subtotal: 219,429.70 isk Divide by 20 to get 10,971.49 isk per unit of plat tech
Now, working backwards, we consider technetium. The same medium tower in sov space doing a non-alchemy plat tech reaction.
The breakeven point for plat tech is 10,971 isk per unit. The simple reaction produces 200 plat tech per hour, so total isk grossed is 2,194,297 isk per hour.
Costs: * 15 fuel blocks: 177,360 isk * 100 platinum: 420,697 isk * 100 technetium: 100X
Subtotal: 598,057 + 100X
With some simple algebra,
598,057 + 100X = 2,194,297 100X = 1,596,240 X = 15,962.40 isk per unit of technetium
So yeah, right now neodymium is 22,000 isk per unit, and it's likely to rise some after patch
and this is a CONSERVATIVE number based on an arguably optimistic value of 600 isk / unit on topes |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
158
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Posted - 2012.07.27 16:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:I took a moment to review the actual math behind plat tech alchemy, and I'm posting my findings below.
:siren: MATH TIME :siren: Your assumptions are: POS Fuel ~ 11k ISK Cobalt ~ 0 ISK Platinum ~ 4k ISK But you left out, "nothing more profitable to do with that POS." The cost of Cobalt only becomes 0 ISK when the reaction is taking place in the POS where the cobalt is being harvested, at which point the cost of the Cobalt becomes the fuel cost of running the moon harvester. You're obviously not using that POS for anything else in the meantime, since you have a harvester, reactor, a coupling and a silo hanging around. If Cobalt really is worth 0, why aren't you harvesting the other moon material that the moon offers instead? Perhaps your POS monkeys have nothing better to do with their time than earn a few thousand ISK/hr?
hi
my price model implies the use of a gallente medium tower
with 2 silos, a moon harvester, and a simple reactor, you have 200 cpu left over which is not enough for another moon miner or another silo
large towers don't work either unless you buy cobalt, because even if a moon is a double cobalt moon, you can only run one cobalt harvester due to poses being poorly coded
moon minerals and reactions are literally the only profitable thing to do on a tower in nullsec
research is stupid to do in 0.0 because you can do it in highsec at no opportunity cost
production is also stupid to do in 0.0 because you have to JF in all the minerals and do three times as much hauling to do a tenth of the production that you can do in a single station in highsec
not to mention that production ANYWHERE in eve is going to be a very poor idea post 8/8
with lowend minerals dropping all the time, anything you build on Monday is going to sell for less than what you paid for the minerals on Friday
you'd have to be a moron to make anything for the next month or so
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
160
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
corestwo wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:One of the goals up until the beginning of phase two is for Tech to continue being the best moon in the game by a large margin.
I suppose that could be accurate, depending on what the definition of "large margin" is. more like
negative margin
man if this is what you have in store for phase one, I shudder to think what phase two is going to entail |
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
160
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Zhentar wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote: you'd have to be a moron to make anything for the next month or so
So what you're saying is, high-sec production is unlikely to be affected? Zing! |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2012.07.27 17:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:So maybe they'll give me destructable stations and a pack of matches and turn me loose. oh hell yes
add destructible outposts to this patch and we'll have plenty of conflict sparkers to replace what you're taking away
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2012.07.27 18:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
on a related note
can we get some comments on this: http://pastebin.com/fnuau8HH
it looks like exhumer/barge tank numbers are being adjusted downwards, but the shipBonusEmShieldResistanceORE3 is kinda nebulous
I understand that diffs like this are taken against data that is not finalized and that ship balance itself is never finalized, but the fate of moon goo is so intrinsically linked to ice prices that I'd like to paint a clear picture before I shitpost too much about things I have a less-than-perfect understanding of |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hammer Legion Member wrote: don't sign your posts
i dunno if you just skipped the last couple of pages but exhumers are directly connected to tech |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2012.07.27 20:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hammer Legion Member wrote:Promiscuous Female wrote:
i dunno if you just skipped the last couple of pages but exhumers are directly connected to tech
not sure if you know the difference between directly and indirectly... regards HML don't sign your posts
let me put this into small words
tech is tied to ice
exhumers mine ice
they are directly related and if you don't see that you cannot be trusted to dress yourself |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
nope
indirectly infers that there are other factors
there aren't for tech
it's all ice all the time
don't sign your posts |

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Sigras wrote:lol yeah cause factors like demand for T2, cartelling of other products, towers being destroyed . . . none of that effects the price of tech right?
good luck running a cartel on plat tech with literally thousands of cobalt moons
Hammer Legion Member wrote: negative Captain indirectly has nothing to do with other factors, it just means that your primary intention is something else certain Exhumers are primary made to mine ice... agree? but secondary(hint for indirectly) to sell the ice for profit or keep it for his private Fuel-Block production. Dont feel ashamed now, this even happends to big boys.
ahahahaha
private fuel block collection
okay dude, you just keep on keepin' on there
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
161
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Posted - 2012.07.27 21:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
this kid's argument now is literally that an increase in ice production means that the increased amount of ice won't actually hit the market because one or two poor, deluded excuses for sapient organisms will literally mine ice, the single worst isk/hr activity in eve short of ship spinning, and use it to produce fuel blocks, which they again do not put on the market, and
wow
just stop |
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